Same here. I was recently in a port frequented by many yachts, and - I was shocked how many fancy boats were way taller than I'd expected. I was wondering how stable they are. Well, now I know…
I am a sailor, albeit a lake sailor,,,,,taking a “Knock” on any body of water is challenging, as long as your sailboat doesn’t turtle, you have options. My Lake “ Klamath Lake” is a shallow huge lake with ideal sailing. I use to Beer Can Race every Wed night in the open class.
Racing is pushing the envelope. One learns to push the sailboat to its limits, every sail is maxed to gain wind power which makes hull speed. Ive taken many Knocks in my 30 years, I’ve never turtled, in our application rigged the boat. Although my race boats have been smaller 21 ft to 34 ft, and 15 knots is flying. It’s magic, when everything’s right, the boats healed you got rail bait of the top side it’s a blast.
The mast on that boat is absolutely ridicules, it screams disaster ahead!. I’ve seen several big boats in my opinion “ over masted”,well it’s only a matter of time and weather before you take a Knock and turtle. Turtling is flipping the boat completely over, keel straight up.
Their is a ratio, which I dont know being mast height and keel depth. I always raced on sailboat's with outstanding safety records, so I didn’t bother to learn that stuff
I doubt they had much sail up in the weather they were experiencing and because they were at anchor, and likely not too many ports, of which the photos do not show very many, open for the same reason. Ron Holland designed a lot of racing and high end cruisers beginning sometime, I seem to recall, in the 1970’s. I think he usually had designs with ballast/ displacement ratios around the 40% area. I have owned cruising boats with 42% to 45% amount of ballast but the 2 racers both had 50%. The racers were really stiff boats. The latest Holland boat I could find that ratio for was designed in 1999 and was about 33%. That means he was relying on hull shape a lot more to keep the boat upright and allow it to come back from heeling in strong winds. I cannot find the ballast ratio for Bayesian but I have seen in the past 20 years large custom sailboats, ships actually, with ballast ratios in the low 20% area. That seems fine to me on a dinghy but I personally would not want to cross an ocean in such a craft. Multihulls are like that but have tremendous beams to prevent turning turtle. Never the less every sailing multihull is more stable upside down. Harder to get that way, but they ain’t coming back back upright on their own if the do.
The problem with designing high-tech and high-performance sailing mega yachts is reconciling fixed (vs liftable keel) draft. A fifty-foot deep fixed ballast keel would have solved the stability problem at the loss of cruising and anchoring anywhere more shallow than 50 feet. This is not a new problem. All sailing ships had the same problem. If they were knocked down, masts in the ocean, they were going to sink. In the old days, cotton sails and hemp sheets and stays would have "blown out" before a sailing ship was knocked flat. Not so today. Bayesian's mast did not fail. It held stout and true all the way down until in was in the sea and filling with sea water (meaning it's now much heavier). This is not a new situation. Pride of Baltimore 1 was knocked down at sea in 1986 and sank fast with loss of life. The only solution would be to never open deck or hull or engine vent hatches, which is impossible. It's always a tradeoff. They just never thought this could happen at anchor, with sails furled and the ballast centerboard up.
“According to ISG, when the boat's keel is raised, Bayesian can withstand an inclination of up to 73 degrees; when the keel is lowered, she can tilt by up to 88 degrees - a nearly flat position with the mast on the water - without capsizing.”
When I heard the initial news reports refer to the ship's "240-foot" mast", I thought that must be a mistake...
Amazing - I actually understood all that.
I'm no sailor but I am a physicist. Just looking at it gives me the chills.
Same here. I was recently in a port frequented by many yachts, and - I was shocked how many fancy boats were way taller than I'd expected. I was wondering how stable they are. Well, now I know…
The story reminded me of the Gaza dock project...which quickly floated away.
All of our modern technological innovations can't replace following common sense procedures and naval experience.
Amen. Spot on.
I am a sailor, albeit a lake sailor,,,,,taking a “Knock” on any body of water is challenging, as long as your sailboat doesn’t turtle, you have options. My Lake “ Klamath Lake” is a shallow huge lake with ideal sailing. I use to Beer Can Race every Wed night in the open class.
Racing is pushing the envelope. One learns to push the sailboat to its limits, every sail is maxed to gain wind power which makes hull speed. Ive taken many Knocks in my 30 years, I’ve never turtled, in our application rigged the boat. Although my race boats have been smaller 21 ft to 34 ft, and 15 knots is flying. It’s magic, when everything’s right, the boats healed you got rail bait of the top side it’s a blast.
The mast on that boat is absolutely ridicules, it screams disaster ahead!. I’ve seen several big boats in my opinion “ over masted”,well it’s only a matter of time and weather before you take a Knock and turtle. Turtling is flipping the boat completely over, keel straight up.
Their is a ratio, which I dont know being mast height and keel depth. I always raced on sailboat's with outstanding safety records, so I didn’t bother to learn that stuff
Dirk
Shallow lakes = big chop with much wind?
I doubt they had much sail up in the weather they were experiencing and because they were at anchor, and likely not too many ports, of which the photos do not show very many, open for the same reason. Ron Holland designed a lot of racing and high end cruisers beginning sometime, I seem to recall, in the 1970’s. I think he usually had designs with ballast/ displacement ratios around the 40% area. I have owned cruising boats with 42% to 45% amount of ballast but the 2 racers both had 50%. The racers were really stiff boats. The latest Holland boat I could find that ratio for was designed in 1999 and was about 33%. That means he was relying on hull shape a lot more to keep the boat upright and allow it to come back from heeling in strong winds. I cannot find the ballast ratio for Bayesian but I have seen in the past 20 years large custom sailboats, ships actually, with ballast ratios in the low 20% area. That seems fine to me on a dinghy but I personally would not want to cross an ocean in such a craft. Multihulls are like that but have tremendous beams to prevent turning turtle. Never the less every sailing multihull is more stable upside down. Harder to get that way, but they ain’t coming back back upright on their own if the do.
The problem with designing high-tech and high-performance sailing mega yachts is reconciling fixed (vs liftable keel) draft. A fifty-foot deep fixed ballast keel would have solved the stability problem at the loss of cruising and anchoring anywhere more shallow than 50 feet. This is not a new problem. All sailing ships had the same problem. If they were knocked down, masts in the ocean, they were going to sink. In the old days, cotton sails and hemp sheets and stays would have "blown out" before a sailing ship was knocked flat. Not so today. Bayesian's mast did not fail. It held stout and true all the way down until in was in the sea and filling with sea water (meaning it's now much heavier). This is not a new situation. Pride of Baltimore 1 was knocked down at sea in 1986 and sank fast with loss of life. The only solution would be to never open deck or hull or engine vent hatches, which is impossible. It's always a tradeoff. They just never thought this could happen at anchor, with sails furled and the ballast centerboard up.
“According to ISG, when the boat's keel is raised, Bayesian can withstand an inclination of up to 73 degrees; when the keel is lowered, she can tilt by up to 88 degrees - a nearly flat position with the mast on the water - without capsizing.”
https://youtu.be/OFOpw5UCn8s?si=XnDHXyDannGof3B4
And what happens during the knockdown when deck hatches or the transom boat garage are open?
Which they were...you nailed it. Now we know..still waiting did they say the keel wasn't fully down?
Excellent video, thanks. Keel up, it can't recover from a 90* knockdown.